Atheists vs. Believers (from latest Newsweek)

[Good Doctor HST]

Hi folks:

From the latest issue of Newsweek (courtesy of msnbc.com):

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17889148/site/newsweek/

A great debate by the leading voices of both schools of thought.

[PhilosophyGenius]

Hi

that was pretty intersting, it was what you could say is a 'typical' conversation between the two

[AuGmENTor]

Wow, Doc, I am half way through this. What a great article. Good arguments on both sides. I still side with Mr. Warren, but understand the opposing point of view as well. (HEHE, Just cause I understand it, doesn't mean I think they are RIGHT, LOL) I think most people who refuse to believe in any religion at all suffer from a damaged "faith bone." You mostly find that these people are just not capable of having faith in anyhing at all. They refuse to believe anything that they can not see/ touch. Thanx for a great post Doc...

[AuGmENTor]

WARREN: The truth is, religion is mutually exclusive. The person who says, "Oh, I just believe them all," is an idiot because the religions flat-out contradict each other. You cannot believe in reincarnation and heaven at the same time.

The ONE thing this guy said that I don't agree with. I do believe reincarnation is possible. It can happen alot of times with judgement day/ heaven, coming at the end of it all, based on all the lives lived. There is too much evidence to support that people have lived other lives. I'd be curious to see Mr. Warrens reaction to the 911 truth movement. I have gotten some really interesting answers from other religious people...



WARREN: I believe in both faith and reason. The more we learn about God, the more we understand how magnificent this universe is. There is no contradiction to it. When I look at history, I would disagree with Sam: Christianity has done far more good than bad. Altruism comes out of knowing there is more than this life, that there is a sovereign God, that I am not God. We're both betting. He's betting his life that he's right. I'm betting my life that Jesus was not a liar. When we die, if he's right, I've lost nothing. If I'm right, he's lost everything. I'm not willing to make that gamble.
IMO This is the best, most quantifying statement in this article.

[Good Doctor HST]

Yeah, this article was by far one of my favorites. Makes subscribing to Newsweek worth it. Sometimes they come out with the entire magazine devoted to health issues, and it's pretty much a yawnfest....

Although I side with Sam Harris through most of the article, Rick Warren brings up many good points; when they got into spirituality right before Warren's closing statement, and right at the beginning of the conversation when he said even the most brilliant scientist would agree we only know a fraction of a percent of the universe. I might even try out The Purpose-Driven Life today...

This all reminds me of the scene in the movie Contact, when Matthew McConaughey and Jodie Foster are together discussing his latest book. It goes kinda something like this:

Ellie (Jodie): I guess I can't believe in something that can't be proven
Palmer (Matthew): Did you love your father?
Ellie: What?
Palmer: Your father? Did you love him?
Ellie: Yes, very much
Palmer: Prove it.

[werther]

WARREN: I believe in both faith and reason. The more we learn about God, the more we understand how magnificent this universe is. There is no contradiction to it. When I look at history, I would disagree with Sam: Christianity has done far more good than bad. Altruism comes out of knowing there is more than this life, that there is a sovereign God, that I am not God. We're both betting. He's betting his life that he's right. I'm betting my life that Jesus was not a liar. When we die, if he's right, I've lost nothing. If I'm right, he's lost everything. I'm not willing to make that gamble.

This is a rewording of a very old philosophic adage called Pascal's wager. However, after this simple sylagism one would have to determine the probability that a given religion or god is the 'right' religion or god. z.b. what if I was a Roman Catholic and found myself in hell because the Muslims had it right.

[MrDark71]

Under that rationale....the Secret is a religion

[DSM]

You mostly find that these people are just not capable of having faith in anyhing at all. They refuse to believe anything that they can not see/ touch. Thanx for a great post Doc...

Don't agree, I have great faith in rationality and all that. I find it odd that superstitious beliefs should be the norm and agree with Dawkings that there are or could be biological reasons for faith (read: The god delusion)

Skeptic Magazine founder Michael Shermer takes us on a hilarious romp through the strange claims we humans put forth as truth - from alien encounters to Virgin Mary sightings on pizza pies, to hidden messages revealed while playing "Stairway to Heaven" backwards - and explains the evolutionary and cognitive basis for these lapses in reason. Don't miss the one-minute challenge testing your own observational skills... Shermer is the founder/publisher of Skeptic Magazine (http://www.skeptic.com/), and author of several books, including Why People Believe Weird Things (http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FPeople-Believe-Weird-Things-Pseudoscience%2Fdp%2F0805070893%2F&tag=wwwtedcom-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325)http://www.assoc-amazon.com/e/ir?t=wwwtedcom-20&l=ur2&o=1. (Recorded February 2006 in Monterey, CA. Duration: 17:29)

http://tedblog.typepad.com/tedblog/2006/11/skeptic_founder.html#

[Good Doctor HST]

This is a rewording of a very old philosophic adage called Pascal's wager. However, after this simple sylagism one would have to determine the probability that a given religion or god is the 'right' religion or god. z.b. what if I was a Roman Catholic and found myself in hell because the Muslims had it right.

Pascal was discussed in the article right before the religious face-off between Harris and Warren. Looking at his life, he seems to be one of the earliest born-again Christians, going from money, women, and fast living to religious philosophizing; all because of a near-death experience and witnessing a miracle.

I don't know how Christians can honestly defend this kind of 'wager'. This just screams of a copout. Aren't Christians supposed to believe whole-heartedly that Christ is the Lord without doubts? Isn't doubting the existence of Jesus against Christian precepts? Calling the belief of Jesus a 'gamble' sounds like disbelief creeping into the picture to me.

[PhilosophyGenius]

http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/6121/brolyjesusgtfoiu5.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)