They Know...

[Gold9472]

I believe some of the more intelligent people who support Bush KNOW EXACTLY what it is that they're doing.

I was talkiing to a co-worker who's a Republican a few weeks ago. The subject was obviously 9/11, and how it was used to invade the Middle East for oil, etc... (ya know, cause that's my thing), anywho...

We eventually got to a point in the conversation where he couldn't answer what I was saying. Then, MUCH TO MY SURPRISE, he said, "Don't you think it's important to maintain our way of life?"

I honestly didn't know how to respond to him. I was taken back by that comment, and actually fearful. He wasn't referring to defending this country against "Terrorism". He was talking about securing the oil in that region to sustain us.

It was OK with him to kill for oil.

VERY FUCKING SCARY FOLKS

[danceyogamom]

I believe some of the more intelligent people who support Bush KNOW EXACTLY what it is that they're doing.

I was talkiing to a co-worker who's a Republican a few weeks ago. The subject was obviously 9/11, and how it was used to invade the Middle East for oil, etc... (ya know, cause that's my thing), anywho...

We eventually got to a point in the conversation where he couldn't answer what I was saying. Then, MUCH TO MY SURPRISE, he said, "Don't you think it's important to maintain our way of life?"

I honestly didn't know how to respond to him. I was taken back by that comment, and actually fearful. He wasn't referring to defending this country against "Terrorism". He was talking about securing the oil in that region to sustain us.

It was OK with him to kill for oil.

VERY FUCKING SCARY FOLKS

I agree ... very fucking scary ... but then again, you know all those middle easterners - they sleep with their siblings and eat their young - so a few less on the planet will actually help (note the heavy sarcasm)

what scares me more, is that our way of life doesn't have to be oil based ... alternatives are being blocked, and we are too lazy to change

[Gold9472]

I agree ... very fucking scary ... but then again, you know all those middle easterners - they sleep with their siblings and eat their young - so a few less on the planet will actually help (note the heavy sarcasm)

what scares me more, is that our way of life doesn't have to be oil based ... alternatives are being blocked, and we are too lazy to change

And the powers that be do nothing to change our dependency on oil because it benefits their pocketbooks.

[danceyogamom]

And the powers that be do nothing to change our dependency on oil because it benefits their pocketbooks.

I agree completely. And by the time the oil is all gone, those powers that be will be controlling the alternatives.

they have it well planned

[Gold9472]

I agree completely. And by the time the oil is all gone, those powers that be will be controlling the alternatives.

they have it well planned

This was a thought I had a while back...Before Fahrenheit 9/11....

I started to read stories about the hostaqe situation in Saudi Arabia today, and read that the people who were holding the hostages, screamed "The crusaders are trying to steal our oil and resources." I started to think about that, and after awhile, it started to make sense. In all estimations, we have about 50 years left of oil. Economically, and militarily, the United States is the most powerful country in the world. Maybe it makes sense that they're trying to grab their take now, while it still exists. That's their solution for both appeasing the oil companies, by giving them another 50 years of business (today's politicians only care about today's money, not money for dead politicians), and insuring that when it all comes down, the United States has the oil, and the power. In the meantime, the fuel companies, such as Exxon/Mobil, BP, Gulf and others, develop alternative fuel sources that will be readily available by the time that comes. Then the least affluent nations, who can't afford the technology for alternative fuel sources, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Israel, Saudi Arabia (then), will buy the oil back from us, making the United States a fortune. Meanwhile, the TV industries make a fortune on the "War On Terror" propaganda given to them by the United States government? Much like the "War On Drugs" propaganda. The United States spends $50billion dollars a year on the "War On Drugs", and that started with lies and deceit 67 years ago. Who's to say they couldn't do it again?

Does History Repeat Itself?

Just A Thought,

Jon

[danceyogamom]

This was a thought I had a while back...Before Fahrenheit 9/11....

I started to read stories about the hostaqe situation in Saudi Arabia today, and read that the people who were holding the hostages, screamed "The crusaders are trying to steal our oil and resources." I started to think about that, and after awhile, it started to make sense. In all estimations, we have about 50 years left of oil. Economically, and militarily, the United States is the most powerful country in the world. Maybe it makes sense that they're trying to grab their take now, while it still exists. That's their solution for both appeasing the oil companies, by giving them another 50 years of business (today's politicians only care about today's money, not money for dead politicians), and insuring that when it all comes down, the United States has the oil, and the power. In the meantime, the fuel companies, such as Exxon/Mobil, BP, Gulf and others, develop alternative fuel sources that will be readily available by the time that comes. Then the least affluent nations, who can't afford the technology for alternative fuel sources, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Israel, Saudi Arabia (then), will buy the oil back from us, making the United States a fortune. Meanwhile, the TV industries make a fortune on the "War On Terror" propaganda given to them by the United States government? Much like the "War On Drugs" propaganda. The United States spends $50billion dollars a year on the "War On Drugs", and that started with lies and deceit 67 years ago. Who's to say they couldn't do it again?

Does History Repeat Itself?

Just A Thought,

Jon

yup ... I think that about sums it up. My God - kill me now please, I don't want to be a part of it anymore.

I think you said it the best, "really fucking scary"

[Good Doctor HST]

"Don't you think it's important to maintain our way of life?"

It's a very common response. It's a forcefad Americo-centric way to look at life. It's comes down to which is more important: for the U.S. to succeed to the best of its ability, or for the World to thrive? For the U.S. to continue as is, it has to do some pretty underhanded shit... like get energy from other countries by any means necessary, eliminate opposition, instill governments favorable to the U.S. way, etc....

So, what's more important? To 'ask what you can do for your country', anything... or work toward the greater good (make the world better for the most people, speaking in general terms of course)? Is trying to make the world better for the most people comparable to the greater good?

Whoa... let's slow down.....I need another drink.... or do I?

[danceyogamom]

It's a very common response. It's a forcefad Americo-centric way to look at life. It's comes down to which is more important: for the U.S. to succeed to the best of its ability, or for the World to thrive? For the U.S. to continue as is, it has to do some pretty underhanded shit... like get energy from other countries by any means necessary, eliminate opposition, instill governments favorable to the U.S. way, etc....

So, what's more important? To 'ask what you can do for your country', anything... or work toward the greater good (make the world better for the most people, speaking in general terms of course)? Is trying to make the world better for the most people comparable to the greater good?

Whoa... let's slow down.....I need another drink.... or do I?

I do ... (of course I'm having tea)

I'd like to think that we should work towards the general good of humanity - a global communal goal ... I'd like to think *I* would make that choice (and teach my children that choice)

But am I willing to give up my car? Am I willing to haul my bbs around on public transportation in order to get groceries? Am I willing to cut down on drinking tea - not boil so much water - in order to conserve energy ...

I could continue to list the comforts in my life that stem from oil ...

sadly, the answer is no ...
(and I feel rather ashamed of it too)

[Good Doctor HST]

I do ... (of course I'm having tea)

I'd like to think that we should work towards the general good of humanity - a global communal goal ... I'd like to think *I* would make that choice (and teach my children that choice)

But am I willing to give up my car? Am I willing to haul my bbs around on public transportation in order to get groceries? Am I willing to cut down on drinking tea - not boil so much water - in order to conserve energy ...

I could continue to list the comforts in my life that stem from oil ...

sadly, the answer is no ...
(and I feel rather ashamed of it too)

Your answer of no is the only choice you have. And feeling ashamed about it would be normal too. I mean, you could make some cutbacks, everybody could, but to give up transportation and other necessities would be ridiculous.

I like what you said up there: a global communal goal - It sounds great when put like that, but take out -al and add -ism and flashing red lights go off... yes, even to this day Communism is evil.

My thinking: Capitalism isn't all it's cracked up to be. My thoughts are it breeds corruption, and society doesn't benefit from individuals going for theirs like we've been taught. But, that's just me.

[princesskittypoo]

i'm a republiscum are you afraid of me Golden boy???

[Gold9472]

i'm a republiscum are you afraid of me Golden boy???

Yep. Scary.

[danceyogamom]

Your answer of no is the only choice you have. And feeling ashamed about it would be normal too. I mean, you could make some cutbacks, everybody could, but to give up transportation and other necessities would be ridiculous.

I like what you said up there: a global communal goal - It sounds great when put like that, but take out -al and add -ism and flashing red lights go off... yes, even to this day Communism is evil.

My thinking: Capitalism isn't all it's cracked up to be. My thoughts are it breeds corruption, and society doesn't benefit from individuals going for theirs like we've been taught. But, that's just me.

I'm not sure we can limit the greed and corruption to capitalism ... I believe its part of the human condition. Any political system any great thinker has created on paper has been corrurpted in some way by the people who try to actualize the concept.

Greed starts in infancy, its a survival instinct ... unfortunately, we (as a general group) haven't learned yet that we don't need it to survive anymore.

[danceyogamom]

I do ... (of course I'm having tea)

I'd like to think that we should work towards the general good of humanity - a global communal goal ... I'd like to think *I* would make that choice (and teach my children that choice)

But am I willing to give up my car? Am I willing to haul my bbs around on public transportation in order to get groceries? Am I willing to cut down on drinking tea - not boil so much water - in order to conserve energy ...

I could continue to list the comforts in my life that stem from oil ...

sadly, the answer is no ...
(and I feel rather ashamed of it too)

I was listening to Living on Earth this morning, and this segment made me think of this thread ...

Environmental Report Card (http://www.loe.org/ETS/organizations.php3?action=printContentItem&orgid=33&typeID=19&itemID=241#feature2)

specifically this quote from it "ESTY: Old myths die hard, and I think the myth you have to sacrifice economically to be environmentally sound is one that's persisted for decades. And I think this is where we really need to look at the data and have policy driven off the real facts and not people's long-standing opinions which may be misinformed. "