What Was Accurate Within The 9/11 Commission Report?

[Gold9472]

Planes hit buildings.

[jetsetlemming]

What alternative to what the report says do you believe? Who flew the planes, how much damage did they do, etc.

[Gold9472]

What alternative to what the report says do you believe? Who flew the planes, how much damage did they do, etc.

I don't know who flew the planes, and the damage they caused within the buildings is unknown.

[somebigguy]

One other fact they got right was the events occurred on 9/11/2001.

[jetsetlemming]

Do you think someone besides taliban terrorists were flying the planes?

[Gold9472]

One other fact they got right was the events occurred on 9/11/2001.

Yeah, and they were so proud of that fact, they even called it the "9/11 Commission Report".

[Gold9472]

Do you think someone besides taliban terrorists were flying the planes?

Well, I can tell you that the 19 names we were given were wrong, and if those 19 people weren't flying those planes, then who was?

[Gold9472]

Look... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1559151.stm

[Gold9472]

So if those 19 names are inaccurate, how many other things are inaccurate? And again, who was flying those planes?

[Gold9472]

Here's a good thread for you to ponder.

http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4795

[jetsetlemming]

You know, I haven't heard about the guy in the bbc article you posted anywhere else before.

[Gold9472]

You know, I haven't heard about the guy in the bbc article you posted anywhere else before.

Revealed: the men with stolen identities - Telegraph
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/09/23/widen23.xml

Hijack 'suspects' alive and well - BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1567815.stm

'Suicide hijacker' is an airline pilot alive and well in Jeddah - Indepedent
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=94438

[Gold9472]

A lot of people haven't. It wasn't mentioned or included in the 9/11 Report.

[Gold9472]

The Independent link doesn't work... I'll try to find the story.

[Gold9472]

'Suicide hijacker' is an airline pilot alive and well in Jeddah

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=94438

By Robert Fisk in Beirut
17 September 2001

A man named by the US Department of Justice as a suicide hijacker of American Airlines flight 11 the first airliner to smash into the World Trade Centre is very much alive and living in Jeddah.

Abdulrahman al-Omari, a pilot with Saudi Airlines, was astonished to find himself accused of hijacking as well as being dead and has visited the US consulate in Jeddah to demand an explanation.

None has so far been forthcoming. It is possible that the hijacker adopted Mr al-Omari's identity but, if he had been using the same false name while training as a pilot in the US, he would presumably have been uncovered.

That is not the only error on the list of hijackers. The name of Ziad Jarrah identified as the pilot-hijacker of United Airlines flight 93, which crashed in Pennsylvania was misspelt "Jarrahi". He was a Lebanese whose family, living in the Bekaa Valley, spoke to him just two days before his death but who still refuse to believe that he was involved.

Mr al-Omari's first name Abdulrahman was later given out by the US authorities as "Abdulaziz" but there can be little doubt that it referred to the pilot who lives in Jeddah. The Americans described him as a father of four and Mr al-Omari does have four children, all of whom live with him and his family in Saudi Arabia's second city. He has refused to talk to reporters and in the words of one prominent Saudi journalist "is one nervous guy".

[jetsetlemming]

I really don't see how they could dispute the guy's existince without covertly killing him and calling everyone who's seen him since a liar. I mean, the guy's right there in flesh and blood.

[jetsetlemming]

Anything recent? Where are these guys now?

[Gold9472]

Good question. Haven't looked for a while.

[Gold9472]

Abdulrahman al-Omari, a Saudi Airlines pilot, was identified by the FBI as one of the hijackers of Flight 11. After learning this, he visited the US consulate in Jeddah to demand an explanation.

[jetsetlemming]

Well, gold, you officially convinced me that they got the guys that took the planes wrong. And I crossed the 100 post border during this discusion. :D

[Gold9472]

Well, gold, you officially convinced me that they got the guys that took the planes wrong. And I crossed the 100 post border during this discusion. :D

Good.

Now ask yourself this. Do you think it would be hard to get 19 individuals willing to sacrifice themselves for the "cause"? Keep in mind that there are an abundance of stories out there that say something like, "Two suicide bombers planned to take out the so and so hotel. One was successful, but the other decided not to engage at the last minute."

[jetsetlemming]

Considering they spent how many months in preparation in America, and before that hearing over and over again that America was coming to kill everyone and take everything. If you were told that aliens were coming to take over the earth, and you saw a flying saucer in the sky, and you had a chance to destroy it but at the cost of your life, would you do it?

[Gold9472]

Considering they spent how many months in preparation in America, and before that hearing over and over again that America was coming to kill everyone and take everything. If you were told that aliens were coming to take over the earth, and you saw a flying saucer in the sky, and you had a chance to destroy it but at the cost of your life, would you do it?

Who, the 19 hijackers we already agreed were inaccurate?

[Gold9472]

According to the "Official Story", you needed 19 men to pull off what they supposedly did. Well... there may not have been 19 men involved. Sooooo...

Who flew those planes?

[jetsetlemming]

The reports never say that the guys that were identified as hijackers who showed up alive weren't replaced by someone else or mistaken for someone else.

[Gold9472]

I CAN tell you, however, that the military were involved in hijacking drills which included "Live-Fly" exercises that day.

9:28 a.m.: NORAD Possibly Holding ‘Live-Fly’ Training Exercise
According to former counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke, around this time the acting Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Richard Myers tells him via video link: “We are in the middle of Vigilant Warrior, a NORAD exercise, but ... Otis [Air National Guard Base] has launched two birds toward New York.” [Clarke, 2004, pp 5] However, no other references have been found to this exercise, “Vigilant Warrior.” Considering that exercise terms are “normally an unclassified nickname,” [CJCSM, 4/23/98] this is perhaps a little odd. Could Richard Clarke have mistakenly been referring to the Vigilant Guardian exercise (see (6:30 a.m.)), which is taking place on 9/11? According to a later news report though, NORAD confirms that “it was running two mock drills on Sept. 11 at various radar sites and Command Centers in the United States and Canada,” one of these being Vigilant Guardian. [New Jersey Star-Ledger, 12/5/03] If this is correct then there must be another NORAD exercise on 9/11. If not “Vigilant Warrior,” a possibility is that the exercise referred to by Richard Clarke is in fact “Amalgam Warrior,” which is a NORAD-sponsored, large-scale, live-fly air defense and air intercept field training exercise. Amalgam Warrior usually involves two or more NORAD regions and is held twice yearly, in the spring for the West Coast and in the autumn for the East Coast. [Airman, 1996; GlobalSecurity [.org], 4/14/02; Committee on Armed Services, 2000; Arkin, 2005, pp 254] Is it possible that in 2001 the East Coast Amalgam Warrior is being held earlier than usual (like Global Guardian (see 8:30 a.m.)) and is taking place on 9/11? In support of this possibility is a 1997 Defense Department report that describes the Stratcom exercise Global Guardian, saying it “links with other exercise activities sponsored by the Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the Unified Commands.” The exercises it links with are Crown Vigilance (an Air Combat Command exercise), Apollo Guardian (a US Space Command exercise), and—significantly—the NORAD exercises Vigilant Guardian and Amalgam Warrior. [Defense Department, 5/97; GlobalSecurity [.org], 10/10/02] Since in 2001, Vigilant Guardian (see (6:30 a.m.)) is occurring the same time as Global Guardian, might Amalgam Warrior be as well? In his book Code Names, William Arkin says that Amalgam Warrior is “sometimes combined with Global Guardian.” [Arkin, 2005, pp 254] Amalgam Warrior tests such activities as tracking, surveillance, air interception, employing rules of engagement, attack assessment, electronic warfare, and counter-cruise-missile operations. A previous Amalgam Warrior in 1996 involved such situations as tracking unknown aircraft that had incorrectly filed their flight plans or wandered off course, in-flight emergencies, terrorist aircraft attacks, and large-scale bomber strike missions. Amalgam Warrior 98-1 was NORAD's largest ever exercise and involved six B-1B bombers being deployed to Eielson Air Force Base, Alaska, to act as an enemy threat by infiltrating the aerial borders of North America. [Airman, 1/96; GlobalSecurity [.org], 4/14/02; Arkin, 2005, pp 254] Another Amalgam Warrior in fall 2000 similarly involved four B-1 bombers acting as enemy forces trying to invade Alaska, with NORAD going from tracking the unknown aircraft to sending up “alert” F-15s in response. [Eielson News Service, 10/27/00; Associated Press, 10/29/00] If either one (or both) of these exercises ending with the name “Warrior” is taking place on 9/11, this could be very significant, because the word “Warrior” indicates that the exercise is a Joint Chiefs of Staff-approved, Commander in Chief, NORAD-sponsored field training exercise. [NORAD, 8/25/89] Real planes would be pretending to be threats to the US and real fighters would be deployed to defend against them.

People and organizations involved: US Department of Defense, Richard B. Myers, Richard A. Clarke, North American Aerospace Defense Command, Ellington Air National Guard Base, Vigilant Guardian, Amalgam Warrior

[Gold9472]

The reports never say that the guys that were identified as hijackers who showed up alive weren't replaced by someone else or mistaken for someone else.

Nope.

[Gold9472]

I got all of that from www.cooperativeresearch.org

[jetsetlemming]

Is there an official source of the hijacker's names? I mean, where the FBI got them, considering there's no paper trail according to them.

[Gold9472]

And I CAN tell you that U.S. Government planned in 1961 to "create a remote-controlled drone duplicate of a real civilian aircraft. The real aircraft would be loaded with “selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases,” and then take off with the drone duplicate simultaneously taking off near by. The aircraft with passengers would secretly land at a US military base while the drone continues along the other plane's flight path. The drone would then be destroyed over Cuba in a way that places the blame on Cuban fighter aircraft."

April 24, 2001: US Military Planned for Attacks Against Americans in 1960s To Use as Justification for Attacking Cuba
James Bamford's book, Body of Secrets, reveals a secret US government plan named Operation Northwoods. All details of the plan come from declassified military documents. [Associated Press, 4/24/01; Baltimore Sun, 4/24/01; ABC News, 5/1/01; Washington Post, 4/26/01 Sources: Operation Northwoods] The heads of the US military, all five Joint Chiefs of Staff, proposed in a 1962 memo to stage attacks against Americans and blame Cuba to create a pretext for invasion. Says one document, “We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington. ... We could blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of indignation.” In March 1962, Lyman L. Lemnitzer, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, presented the Operation Northwoods plan to President John Kennedy and Defense Secretary Robert McNamara. The plan was rejected. Lemnitzer then sought to destroy all evidence of the plan. [Baltimore Sun, 4/24/01; ABC News, 5/1/01] Lemnitzer was replaced a few months later, but the Joint Chiefs continued to plan “pretext” operations at least through 1963. [ABC News, 5/1/01] One suggestion in the plan was to create a remote-controlled drone duplicate of a real civilian aircraft. The real aircraft would be loaded with “selected passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases,” and then take off with the drone duplicate simultaneously taking off near by. The aircraft with passengers would secretly land at a US military base while the drone continues along the other plane's flight path. The drone would then be destroyed over Cuba in a way that places the blame on Cuban fighter aircraft. [Harper's, 7/1/01] Bamford says, “Here we are, 40 years afterward, and it's only now coming out. You just wonder what is going to be exposed 40 years from now.” [Insight, 7/30/01] Some 9/11 skeptics later claim that the 9/11 attacks could have been orchestrated by elements of the US government, and see Northwoods as an example of how top US officials could hatch such a plot. [Oakland Tribune, 3/27/04]

People and organizations involved: Lyman L. Lemnitzer, James Bamford, Operation Northwoods, Robert McNamara, John F. Kennedy

[Gold9472]

Is there an official source of the hijacker's names? I mean, where the FBI got them, considering there's no paper trail according to them.

Go ask them.

[Gold9472]

I CAN tell you, however, that, "Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians."

http://www.yourbbsucks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3099

[jetsetlemming]

Go ask them.
I guess that's a no.

[Gold9472]

I guess that's a no.

Well, they did find a prestinely conditioned passport at the WTC...

[Gold9472]

They found this visa (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/08/22/911.commission/index.html), and this passport (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1546927.stm).

[jetsetlemming]

Wow, Ziad Jarrah looks white. At least they took the time to put a ighter under one corner of the picture to make it look burnt.

[Gold9472]

Wow, Ziad Jarrah looks white. At least they took the time to put a ighter under one corner of the picture to make it look burnt.

Heh... now you're getting it. That's a theory. Go try to prove it.

[jetsetlemming]

That Ziad Jarrah was white or that the picture was burnt with a lighter?

[jetsetlemming]

Did you change your links? His picture dissappeared. I was going to examine the burn.

[Gold9472]

Did you change your links? His picture dissappeared. I was going to examine the burn.

No... where did it go?

[Gold9472]

Now THAT'S interesting...

[jetsetlemming]

I'll look it up through google.

[Gold9472]

I thought it was under your link "visa" (that articale talks about the pic) but it's not there anymore.

It was.

[Gold9472]

Knock yourself out...

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayjarrah.html

[jetsetlemming]

That's a good link. It's got lots of pics lined up next to each other.