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Gold9472
02-23-2005, 09:57 AM
Pope: Gay marriage is 'evil'
Wednesday, February 23, 2005 Posted: 2:58 AM EST (0758 GMT)

The pope says homosexual marriages are part of "a new ideology of evil".

ROME, Italy (Reuters) -- Homosexual marriages are part of "a new ideology of evil" that is insidiously threatening society, Pope John Paul says in his newly published book.

In "Memory and Identity," the Pope also calls abortion a "legal extermination" comparable to attempts to wipe out Jews and other groups in the 20th century.

He also reveals that he is convinced the Turkish gunman who shot him in 1981 did not act alone and suggests that the former Communist Bloc may have been behind the plot to kill him.

The 84-year-old Pontiff's book, a highly philosophical and intricate work on the nature of good and evil, is based on conversations with philosopher friends in 1993 and later with some of his aides.

In one section about the role of lawmakers, the Pope takes another swipe at gay marriages when he refers to "pressures" on the European Parliament to allow them.

"It is legitimate and necessary to ask oneself if this is not perhaps part of a new ideology of evil, perhaps more insidious and hidden, which attempts to pit human rights against the family and against man," he writes.

The Pope's fifth book for mass circulation, issued by Italian publisher Rizzoli, sparked controversy in Germany and elsewhere after Jewish groups protested against leaked excerpts comparing the Holocaust to abortion.

In at least two sections of the book, the Pope talks about the Nazi attempt to exterminate Jews and the wholesale slaughter of political opponents by Communist regimes after World War Two.

'Legal extermination'
In following paragraphs he says that legally elected parliaments in formerly totalitarian countries were today allowing what he called new forms of evil and new exterminations.

"There is still, however a legal extermination of human beings who have been conceived but not yet born," he writes.

"And this time we are talking about an extermination which has been allowed by nothing less than democratically elected parliaments where one normally hears appeals for the civil progress of society and all humanity," he writes.

In Germany, a leader of the country's Central Council of Jews called the comparison unacceptable.

At a news conference presenting the book, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Vatican's top doctrinal official, dismissed the Jewish charges.

Ratzinger said the Pope "was not trying to put the Holocaust and abortion on the same plane" but only warning that evil lurked everywhere, "even in liberal political systems."

In another section, the Pope describes at length the assassination attempt on May 13, 1981, when Turkish gunman Mehmet Ali Agca shot and nearly killed him in St Peter's Square.

Of Agca, the Pope writes the assassination attempt was "not his initiative, someone else masterminded it and someone else commissioned it."

Two trials in the early 1980s failed to prove prosecutors' suspicions that Bulgaria's secret services had masterminded a plot to kill the Pope on behalf of the Soviet Union.

At the time the Polish Pope was a strong supporter of the Solidarity trade union in his native Poland and the Soviet Union saw Solidarity as a threat to the stability of the communist bloc.

The Pope says the assassination attempt against him was perhaps "the last convulsion" of the ideologies of the 20th century -- a clear reference to the Communist bloc.

Gold9472
02-23-2005, 10:10 AM
Those gay bastards who tried to get married are EVIL...

danceyogamom
02-23-2005, 10:11 AM
Overall I subscribe to a Catholic ideology ... it was how I was raised, and for the most part its what I'm comfortable with.

But when I read crap like this ... it shames me.

when Christians start following all the laws of Leviticus, then they may have some basis for this prejudice. Of course, I won't agree with it even then - but at least it would make sense from a religious stand point.

Uber Commandante
02-23-2005, 10:40 AM
Those gay bastards who tried to get married are EVIL...

And YOU! - yea, you...over there; you're evil too. And you, mister, don't think you can just get away without being evil. And what about you, missy? EVIL, EVIL, EVIL.

Uber Commandante
02-23-2005, 10:44 AM
Overall I subscribe to a Catholic ideology ... it was how I was raised, and for the most part its what I'm comfortable with.

But when I read crap like this ... it shames me.

when Christians start following all the laws of Leviticus, then they may have some basis for this prejudice. Of course, I won't agree with it even then - but at least it would make sense from a religious stand point.

I used to work at this bar/pub being a bartender, waiter, do-everything else kind of guy, and it always used to amaze me that on some catholic holiday or another, I think its lent, or maybe you aren't supposed to eat meat on Fridays or something like that. And people would come in a get a pizza and hold the pepperoni because it was Friday. Uh...yea, dude. Thats going to get you into heaven. I used to imagine these people beating their wives, or having affairs, or something atrocious, but then come into the resteraunt and hold the pepperoni because its Friday. Well, some shit I just don't get!

Se7en
02-23-2005, 12:32 PM
Pope says: Gay marriage is 'evil' as he removes his penis from an 8 yr old boy's ass.:whattha:

Gold9472
02-23-2005, 12:41 PM
Overall I subscribe to a Catholic ideology ... it was how I was raised, and for the most part its what I'm comfortable with.

But when I read crap like this ... it shames me.

when Christians start following all the laws of Leviticus, then they may have some basis for this prejudice. Of course, I won't agree with it even then - but at least it would make sense from a religious stand point.

"I like your Christ, I don't like your Christians. Your Christians are nothing like your Christ."

Ghandi

danceyogamom
02-23-2005, 03:21 PM
I used to work at this bar/pub being a bartender, waiter, do-everything else kind of guy, and it always used to amaze me that on some catholic holiday or another, I think its lent, or maybe you aren't supposed to eat meat on Fridays or something like that. And people would come in a get a pizza and hold the pepperoni because it was Friday. Uh...yea, dude. Thats going to get you into heaven. I used to imagine these people beating their wives, or having affairs, or something atrocious, but then come into the resteraunt and hold the pepperoni because its Friday. Well, some shit I just don't get!

human dogma has very little to do with religion ... whenever you put people into an equation of a great concept (fellowship of man, kindness, communal living ...) it gets fucked up.

I do what I can to be kind to as many as possible (except Paris Hilton ... ha ha ha) I figure its the best I can do. That and raise good babies to continue the kindness.

oh - and a huge number of Catholics don't really understand why they are supposed to sacrafice during lent ... they just know they aren't supposed to eat meat on Fridays. It holds about as much meaning as a geometric proof. There is logic and reasons behind the answer, but you can "solve the equation" without understanding.

chicken_dance0482
02-23-2005, 03:52 PM
"I like your Christ, I don't like your Christians. Your Christians are nothing like your Christ."

Ghandi

QFA

we as humans are not capable of defining evil... (see excerpt from an autobiography i had to write)
Now to be philosophical, what is evil? By definition evil is:

· noun: morally objectionable behavior

· noun: the quality of being morally wrong in principle or practice (Example: "Attempts to explain the origin of evil in the world")

· noun: that which causes harm or destruction or misfortune (Example: "The evil that men do lives after them")

· adjective: tending to cause great harm

· adjective: morally bad or wrong (Example: "Evil purposes")

· adjective: having the nature of vice

· adjective: having or exerting a malignant influence



but what makes one person or action evil. Is it the action itself or the thought behind the action? If two children are at play and one of the children shoots the other, is the child holding the gun evil? What about the gun itself? The owner of the gun? The game the child was playing? Or do we just blame society and say the incident was unavoidable. How do we know the child was not inherently evil? The answer, we don’t.

Good Doctor HST
02-23-2005, 04:44 PM
This information about gay marriage being evil comes from a man who can't even lift his head without a struggle. When did he have time to write a book? Times between drooling on himself and babbling in broken English?

Gold9472
02-23-2005, 07:03 PM
QFA

we as humans are not capable of defining evil... (see excerpt from an autobiography i had to write)
Now to be philosophical, what is evil? By definition evil is:

· noun: morally objectionable behavior

· noun: the quality of being morally wrong in principle or practice (Example: "Attempts to explain the origin of evil in the world")

· noun: that which causes harm or destruction or misfortune (Example: "The evil that men do lives after them")

· adjective: tending to cause great harm

· adjective: morally bad or wrong (Example: "Evil purposes")

· adjective: having the nature of vice

· adjective: having or exerting a malignant influence



but what makes one person or action evil. Is it the action itself or the thought behind the action? If two children are at play and one of the children shoots the other, is the child holding the gun evil? What about the gun itself? The owner of the gun? The game the child was playing? Or do we just blame society and say the incident was unavoidable. How do we know the child was not inherently evil? The answer, we don’t.

Excellent.

Gold9472
02-23-2005, 07:05 PM
human dogma has very little to do with religion ... whenever you put people into an equation of a great concept (fellowship of man, kindness, communal living ...) it gets fucked up.

I do what I can to be kind to as many as possible (except Paris Hilton ... ha ha ha) I figure its the best I can do. That and raise good babies to continue the kindness.

oh - and a huge number of Catholics don't really understand why they are supposed to sacrafice during lent ... they just know they aren't supposed to eat meat on Fridays. It holds about as much meaning as a geometric proof. There is logic and reasons behind the answer, but you can "solve the equation" without understanding.

You smart. :bowdown:

Giggles
02-23-2005, 09:21 PM
I will say I'm not prejudice against gays or lesbians or even Unisex. I do however feel it is wrong.

Gold9472
02-23-2005, 09:24 PM
I will say I'm not prejudice against gays or lesbians or even Unisex. I do however feel it is wrong.

What do you think is wrong? Gay Marriage? If that is the case, might I ask why?

danceyogamom
02-24-2005, 12:10 AM
You smart. :bowdown:

thank you :jesusdanc (had to use the Jesus!)

Giggles
02-25-2005, 02:05 AM
What do you think is wrong? Gay Marriage? If that is the case, might I ask why?It goes back to my religion. I don't know why but that is how I feel about it. I will accept that I'm not prejudice about it. (if you know my family you would know why)

princesskittypoo
03-02-2005, 10:54 PM
i think any love is good... how can love be wrong?

Gold9472
03-02-2005, 10:58 PM
thank you :jesusdanc (had to use the Jesus!)

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

danceyogamom
03-02-2005, 11:26 PM
i think any love is good... how can love be wrong?

well .. it can be when its disfunctional - but that happens in het couples as much as it happens in gay couples.

But when you don't consider the disfunctional stuff, I agree completely. True love (in any form) is a gift from God. That could be the love between *any* two people ... The special bond siblings can have, parent and child, lovers both gay and straight.

love is love and as long as its respected its all good!