Two excerpts from two very different religious texts.....

[Good Doctor HST]

“Slay the idolators [non-Muslims] wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the last Day…. Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah!"

-From the Qur'an (Sura 9:5,29,41)

"If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him;
But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you."
-From the Holy Bible (Deuteronomy 13:6, 8-11)

[Partridge]

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn "a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household." (Jesus, quoted in Matthew 10:34-36)

[PhilosophyGenius]

I'd love to see someone of either relgion bullshit there way out of these quotes when confronted.

[princesskittypoo]

huh?

[PhilosophyGenius]

huh?

I'd like to see what someone would say when confronted with these texts, someone who follows these religions.

[Good Doctor HST]

I'd like to see what someone would say when confronted with these texts, someone who follows these religions.

I know what they say. I know many of them. They say, "God must have a reason to spread these ideas in the Gospel. It's all part of His Divine Plan." Drives me fucking nuts!

[PhilosophyGenius]

I know what they say. I know many of them. They say, "God must have a reason to spread these ideas in the Gospel. It's all part of His Divine Plan." Drives me fucking nuts!

The common answer is, "it depends on if you take it literally or not". What the F' does that mean?

[jetsetlemming]

It means, do you think Jonas was swallowed by a whale and then spit back up three days later, safe and sound, or do you not care about whether it's true or just a parable? The movement to interpret the bible for your own goddamn self has caught on. No more having other people force you to take their opinions. There are a lot of "non-denominational" Christian churches popping up, where the preacher's sermon is short and about basic Christianity, the ten commandments, being a good person, and the focus is on spirituality and not on rules and who's with us and who's going to hell.

[princesskittypoo]

i think god is inside of us. not in a book.

[PhilosophyGenius]

It means, do you think Jonas was swallowed by a whale and then spit back up three days later, safe and sound, or do you not care about whether it's true or just a parable? The movement to interpret the bible for your own goddamn self has caught on. No more having other people force you to take their opinions. There are a lot of "non-denominational" Christian churches popping up, where the preacher's sermon is short and about basic Christianity, the ten commandments, being a good person, and the focus is on spirituality and not on rules and who's with us and who's going to hell.

If the bible said this Jonas dude was swallowed by a whale and spit back out 3 days later, and you're a Christian, then you HAVE to believe that. If you don't believe that then why is the rest any differnet. It's either the whole thing or not at all.

[PhilosophyGenius]

i think god is inside of us. not in a book.

How do you know?

[jetsetlemming]

If the bible said this Jonas dude was swallowed by a whale and spit back out 3 days later, and you're a Christian, then you HAVE to believe that. If you don't believe that then why is the rest any differnet. It's either the whole thing or not at all.
Says who? I've never once talked to a preacher or heard one give a sermon that demands you believe literally every little thing. They don't openly encourage ignoring parts of the bible, but it's a given. What you just said is the equivalent of saying one can't be Muslim unless they blow up the infidels and curse the west. There are some Christians that demand literalism, mostly in the Catholic church, but they are the minority.

[Uber Commandante]

i think god is inside of us. not in a book.

Somewhere or another Jesus says that "The kingdom of god is within you". Now, not being a Christian (because I don't believe Jesus was God), I take this to mean that spirituality is found in each of us.

However, that idea is a conflict of interest for the church, which, for most of its existence was also the major political player. After all, if God is within us, then why do we need the powerful priest class to be our conduit to divinity?

The bible has been modified through out its existence to support various political causes. Most people couldn't even read it, and sermons were in Latin to make it more exclusive, so this was quite an easy feat.

The various texts according to whomever have Jesus making contradictory statements. As was pointed out in another thread, even the idea of Jesus as God didn't become official until some 400 years after his death - by vote. Think about 400 years ago from present: 1606. What the hell do you know about 1606? and we have more information at our disposal then the people in the year 400 ever did. So, what could they possibly be doing except making political decisions while invoking the name of Jesus?

Hey! I guess things haven't changed much.

[Gold9472]

Somewhere or another Jesus says that "The kingdom of god is within you". Now, not being a Christian (because I don't believe Jesus was God), I take this to mean that spirituality is found in each of us.

However, that idea is a conflict of interest for the church, which, for most of its existence was also the major political player. After all, if God is within us, then why do we need the powerful priest class to be our conduit to divinity?

The bible has been modified through out its existence to support various political causes. Most people couldn't even read it, and sermons were in Latin to make it more exclusive, so this was quite an easy feat.

The various texts according to whomever have Jesus making contradictory statements. As was pointed out in another thread, even the idea of Jesus as God didn't become official until some 400 years after his death - by vote. Think about 400 years ago from present: 1606. What the hell do you know about 1606? and we have more information at our disposal then the people in the year 400 ever did. So, what could they possibly be doing except making political decisions while invoking the name of Jesus?

Hey! I guess things haven't changed much.

That's my Uber.

[Partridge]

Jetset: The argument of literalism vs symbolism is all very well and good (and keeps theologians ina job). But there are things you can legitimatley argue are 'disputed' (Jonas, Adam & Eve, the Ark, the Creation and so on) but when it comes to direct commands like:

"Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him;
But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage."


"If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

These can only be interpreted as guides as to what to do in these scenarios - there's nothing ambigious about them.

(Also, it would have been impossible for a whale to swallow Jonah as a whale's throat is only about as big as a golf ball - hence why they eat plankton)

[PhilosophyGenius]

All's I got to say about this is you either believe the ENTIRE thing or not at all. Picking and choosing which parts you like doesnt make sense.

[jetsetlemming]

The Bible was written by a whole lot of different people over a very long time. True, they say the Bible is God's word, but whos' to say the message was never diluted with human thoughts? Plus, there's a lot of things that are misinterpretted in order to attack Christians. "Turn the other cheek" was a perfect example. There's a big difference between a bitchn slap and trying to kill you, and Jesus sure never said "be defence-less". And that passage is in response to someone trying to convert you away from God. Compare that to saying "kill anyone who's not with Allah (the Koran passage)".